This video was done in something of a fit after getting a number of monarchy-bashing messages from Catholics (which rather set me off, I guess no one told them the Pope is a monarch too).
The straw that broke this camel's back as it were came from South America, where monarchy is associated with Spain and Spain=bad. Others are from Ireland where monarchy is associated with Britain and Britain=bad. It probably annoys me more than it should just because, as I tried to show, the Catholic Church has always been pro-monarchy and anti-revolution.
I mentione din an Earlier thread that Christian Anti-Monarchism made no sense to me, but had thought it was confined to Protestantism. After all, the Catholic Churhc is identifiabely set up in Feudal terms, with a Local Priest actign as a Local Vassel to the Local Bishop, who serves as Lord of the Region. Archbishops are sort of like Dukes and have power over other Lords of lower Station, and of coruse yor right, the Pope is a Monarch. But I suppose the Liebralising trend in Catholisism has left people with the idea that the Pope is a Spiritual Leader, and they have divorced this form Political reality.
It seems our Western Society has made Synthetic distinctions between oens Religion and everyday life that I neve understood either. It slike people who are personally opposed to bortion, whilst still arguing it should be legal in the interest of womens rights. How can one argue that Murder should be Legal?
They usually rpely that they can’t impose their religious belief sonto society, but this is exalty what the Secularists do. After all, Religion is not about belief in a god, and the Secularists who argue they arent Relgiious have as much Dogma and Doctrine as the rest, but somehow their view, because it si Secular, is permissible ad the “Religious” view isn’t? Logically this is a contradiction, but contradictiosn seem to rule our world to begin with.
Republicanism is also a Contradiction, for we see people claiming that they don’t want ot be told what to do by some man, and hten bowing before the “Peopels chosen leader”, and being told what to do by him.
It is just as Illogical to belogn to the Cahtolic Churhc and serve Christ as King, and look upon the Pope as holdign the place of Christ on Earth, and se ehim as just a Spiritual Leader whose authority is not and should not extend beyind the riole of teahcing matter sof Faith for private use. Its all just madness.
But madness seems the prevailing mood of men these days, for we have no shepherd to guide us, only wolves we call Politicians.
As for Irrland, I stopped tskign them seriously. No offenc to the Irish, but how can you cvlamour abotu how bad British Rule was and how much you wanted freedom, then sell out tot he EU which excesises far mroe ocntrole over IReland than BRitain ever did?
I like that Zarove - No shephards, only the wolves we call politicians. And we've left them in charge of the hen house.
Yup, real smart guys, they are.
As a Catholic myself, I think I'm certainly qualified to comment on this. I consider it no contradiction to be loyal to my Protestant Queen (Elizabeth II of Australia) while maintaining my own Catholicism. However, the fact that Catholics in the English-speaking world were oppressed, not to mention that there hasn't been much by way of Catholic monarchies since WWI (Spain and the Holy See being the only exceptions today), there really has been a great backlash against the oppressive monarchies, even though they are now no longer oppressive (on the contrary, the monarchies have never been as repressive as the bureaucracy we inflict on ourselves today).
Combined with the appeal of communism and its derivatives, and the superficial appeal of communism due to its derivation from the Christian message of peace, goodwill and charity, and you get a very pertinent anti-monarchist movement.
Also, I can vouch that I learnt very little about my own Catholicism at school, in spite of being in the Catholic system for all 13 years of my schooling. I didn't hear about the Catechisms until my grandmother told me, we hardly looked at the Bible, and frankly, we hardly studied anything approaching theology. It was all 'relevant' to every day life (eg marriage, death, the sacraments). No Aquinas, no Bacon, no nothing. Thus, to expect Catholics to know that the Holy See is an elective absolute monarchy seems quite rich (especially if there is no functioning Catholic system, in contrast to Australia).
Still, superficial appeal and ignorance can never cast down what is undisputably true - Catholicism and Empire, Throne and Altar, Holy Roman Empire and Holy See, go together like bread and butter. All that's happened now is that everyone buys margarine, horrid as it is.
Catholic Church just has such an inherently monarchial structure that it annoys me I suppose when a catholic bashes monarchy. I don't really care if they are not monarchists, but when they go out of their way to attack it -that ticks me off. Things are not *quite* so bad officially though. Other than the Vatican and Spain the Principalities of Liechtenstein and Monaco are officially Catholic, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg and the Kingdom of Belgium have Catholic royal families as does the little Kingdom of Lesotho in Africa, so there are a few more than two still hanging around. Liechtenstein and Monaco are the only two that actually have Catholicism as their official state religion though.
I'm an Irish Catholic who is very anti-EU but it is not true that the EU exercises more control over Ireland than British rule. The Penal Laws made Catholicism in Ireland illegal from 1690 to 1778 and Catholic priests found in Ireland at that time were executed. There was land confiscation, economic discrimination and loads of other examples but you get the point.
On the other hand most EU legislation is hidden. It might be created by national parliaments but based on European Commission directives. Or else the 'interpretation' of a law might be imposed by the European Court of Human Rights - not technically an EU body but EU treaties oblige member states to heed its rulings.
It is precisely because the EU is stealthy and nonthreatening that so many go along with it. The pro-EU media-political monopoly in Ireland gives a huge unfair advantage to the 'Yes' side in any EU treaty referendum campaign. But that is hardly unique. Look at the 1975 British referendum on EU membership: same tactics, same result.
Monarchy is the God-ordained form of government; Christ was born a King, of a line of Earthly Kings.
ReplyDeleteI guess the general anti-monarchy trend in society affects Catholics too.
ReplyDeleteThe straw that broke this camel's back as it were came from South America, where monarchy is associated with Spain and Spain=bad. Others are from Ireland where monarchy is associated with Britain and Britain=bad. It probably annoys me more than it should just because, as I tried to show, the Catholic Church has always been pro-monarchy and anti-revolution.
ReplyDeleteI mentione din an Earlier thread that Christian Anti-Monarchism made no sense to me, but had thought it was confined to Protestantism. After all, the Catholic Churhc is identifiabely set up in Feudal terms, with a Local Priest actign as a Local Vassel to the Local Bishop, who serves as Lord of the Region. Archbishops are sort of like Dukes and have power over other Lords of lower Station, and of coruse yor right, the Pope is a Monarch. But I suppose the Liebralising trend in Catholisism has left people with the idea that the Pope is a Spiritual Leader, and they have divorced this form Political reality.
ReplyDeleteIt seems our Western Society has made Synthetic distinctions between oens Religion and everyday life that I neve understood either. It slike people who are personally opposed to bortion, whilst still arguing it should be legal in the interest of womens rights. How can one argue that Murder should be Legal?
They usually rpely that they can’t impose their religious belief sonto society, but this is exalty what the Secularists do. After all, Religion is not about belief in a god, and the Secularists who argue they arent Relgiious have as much Dogma and Doctrine as the rest, but somehow their view, because it si Secular, is permissible ad the “Religious” view isn’t? Logically this is a contradiction, but contradictiosn seem to rule our world to begin with.
Republicanism is also a Contradiction, for we see people claiming that they don’t want ot be told what to do by some man, and hten bowing before the “Peopels chosen leader”, and being told what to do by him.
It is just as Illogical to belogn to the Cahtolic Churhc and serve Christ as King, and look upon the Pope as holdign the place of Christ on Earth, and se ehim as just a Spiritual Leader whose authority is not and should not extend beyind the riole of teahcing matter sof Faith for private use. Its all just madness.
But madness seems the prevailing mood of men these days, for we have no shepherd to guide us, only wolves we call Politicians.
As for Irrland, I stopped tskign them seriously. No offenc to the Irish, but how can you cvlamour abotu how bad British Rule was and how much you wanted freedom, then sell out tot he EU which excesises far mroe ocntrole over IReland than BRitain ever did?
I like that Zarove - No shephards, only the wolves we call politicians. And we've left them in charge of the hen house.
ReplyDeleteYup, real smart guys, they are.
As a Catholic myself, I think I'm certainly qualified to comment on this. I consider it no contradiction to be loyal to my Protestant Queen (Elizabeth II of Australia) while maintaining my own Catholicism. However, the fact that Catholics in the English-speaking world were oppressed, not to mention that there hasn't been much by way of Catholic monarchies since WWI (Spain and the Holy See being the only exceptions today), there really has been a great backlash against the oppressive monarchies, even though they are now no longer oppressive (on the contrary, the monarchies have never been as repressive as the bureaucracy we inflict on ourselves today).
Combined with the appeal of communism and its derivatives, and the superficial appeal of communism due to its derivation from the Christian message of peace, goodwill and charity, and you get a very pertinent anti-monarchist movement.
Also, I can vouch that I learnt very little about my own Catholicism at school, in spite of being in the Catholic system for all 13 years of my schooling. I didn't hear about the Catechisms until my grandmother told me, we hardly looked at the Bible, and frankly, we hardly studied anything approaching theology. It was all 'relevant' to every day life (eg marriage, death, the sacraments). No Aquinas, no Bacon, no nothing. Thus, to expect Catholics to know that the Holy See is an elective absolute monarchy seems quite rich (especially if there is no functioning Catholic system, in contrast to Australia).
Still, superficial appeal and ignorance can never cast down what is undisputably true - Catholicism and Empire, Throne and Altar, Holy Roman Empire and Holy See, go together like bread and butter. All that's happened now is that everyone buys margarine, horrid as it is.
Catholic Church just has such an inherently monarchial structure that it annoys me I suppose when a catholic bashes monarchy. I don't really care if they are not monarchists, but when they go out of their way to attack it -that ticks me off. Things are not *quite* so bad officially though. Other than the Vatican and Spain the Principalities of Liechtenstein and Monaco are officially Catholic, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg and the Kingdom of Belgium have Catholic royal families as does the little Kingdom of Lesotho in Africa, so there are a few more than two still hanging around. Liechtenstein and Monaco are the only two that actually have Catholicism as their official state religion though.
ReplyDeleteZarove,
ReplyDeleteI'm an Irish Catholic who is very anti-EU but it is not true that the EU exercises more control over Ireland than British rule. The Penal Laws made Catholicism in Ireland illegal from 1690 to 1778 and Catholic priests found in Ireland at that time were executed. There was land confiscation, economic discrimination and loads of other examples but you get the point.
On the other hand most EU legislation is hidden. It might be created by national parliaments but based on European Commission directives. Or else the 'interpretation' of a law might be imposed by the European Court of Human Rights - not technically an EU body but EU treaties oblige member states to heed its rulings.
It is precisely because the EU is stealthy and nonthreatening that so many go along with it. The pro-EU media-political monopoly in Ireland gives a huge unfair advantage to the 'Yes' side in any EU treaty referendum campaign. But that is hardly unique. Look at the 1975 British referendum on EU membership: same tactics, same result.
Thank you for this wonderful video.
ReplyDeletecheers Brother Gilbert