tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post7624923783475415948..comments2024-03-16T01:00:19.876-05:00Comments on The Mad Monarchist: Armistice DayMadMonarchisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-46428968527690994412010-11-12T11:39:23.880-06:002010-11-12T11:39:23.880-06:00A good post. As I said on my own blog yesterday, W...A good post. As I said on my own blog yesterday, World War I was the greatest tragedy to ever befall the west -- the Second World War and virtually any other diplomatic disaster since you might care to name can in some way trace its cause to the First World War.<br /><br />I agree with you in assigning the lion's share of responsibility to Russia for turning what would have been a Third Balkan War into World War I. The Austro-Hungarians had every reason to want to punish the Serbs, Serbian intelligence was hand in glove (so to speak) with the Black Hand and the Austrians knew it. No country would have behaved differently following the murder of a significant political figure by terrorists connected to a neigboring foreign power. The Russians, of all people, should have seen the necessity of monarchial solidarity with Vienna on that point.<br /><br />Turning to Versailles, I would argue that, oddly enough, Germany came away from the treaty stronger in geopolitical terms that it had been in 1914. Germany's territorial losses were grave and (in the east at least) rather unjust, but she lost no industry and not much population, and instead of having a strong Russian Empire on the east, she was borded by nothing but weak petty states everyplace but to the West. The prohibition on unification with what was left of Austria was also a mistake -- had the German areas of what was left of Austria Hungary been allowed to join with Germany (or the option at least left open for later), that would have gone a long way towards reconciling German opinion to the rest of the settlement.<br /><br />As it turned out, the allies bought themselves the worst of all worlds: they took just enough from the Germans to anger them, and give the cranks and lunatics a potent talking point, but nothing that would permanent danage Germany as a great power. Never do an enemy a small injury.<br /><br />The fall of the German monarchies was a tragedy for everyone -- Germany, but, as it turned out, the rest of Europe also.El Jefe Maximohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14661511063910659377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-84515382868927058332010-11-12T07:05:14.022-06:002010-11-12T07:05:14.022-06:00Wonderful post! The Treaty of Versailles was one ...Wonderful post! The Treaty of Versailles was one of the worst treaties in history. Honestly, it was more of a war treaty than a peace treaty. It didn't help, however, that the United States refused to support the League of Nations. I don't really blame Americans though, we lived in isolation from the rest of the world and weren't ready for a more international role.Theresa Brunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10934415969408365200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-68483267629052228132010-11-11T21:22:42.063-06:002010-11-11T21:22:42.063-06:00To MB; thank you, to Mr Wells; that fear was not l...To MB; thank you, to Mr Wells; that fear was not lost on many of the men who had the most contact with the Germans: the military men. Marshal Foch and General Pershing I know both said that the terms were far too light and Germany would soon recover to try again. Of course if they had not been so harsh with the Germans it might not have mattered but they did exactly the wrong thing in alienating and infuriating the Germans but them putting them on the honor system to be good about it.<br /><br />To Elisa; that is interesting about the Kaiser and the mosque, not something most people are aware of. Of course A-H was Catholic and the Catholic Church would always have pride of place in the Hapsburg empire but Jews and Muslims alike were also treated fairly and with all respect by Kaiser Franz Josef and his successor. Everyone thinks of Austria-Hungary as the enemies of the Ottoman Turks; which they were for most of European history, but they were good allies in the war and Kaiser Karl actually sent an Austrian expeditionary force to the Middle East to support the Ottoman war effort.MadMonarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-58920658240756553722010-11-11T20:34:52.227-06:002010-11-11T20:34:52.227-06:00This is such a great post, I really struggled to s...This is such a great post, I really struggled to say something today, just should set this link instead.MartininBrodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13367467039848677931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-86514405850884482602010-11-11T18:31:23.294-06:002010-11-11T18:31:23.294-06:00Versailles is rightly derided - it was harsh enoug...Versailles is rightly derided - it was harsh enough to leave the Germans seething, but not harsh enough to stop them reaching bloody vengeance (though I doubt anyone really counted on that horror we call appeasement. Feeding the crocodile that it might eat one last. Gee, talk about living on your knees).Professor Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00659779116600213901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-5840455018406869002010-11-11T17:50:05.580-06:002010-11-11T17:50:05.580-06:00I thought of my day excursion to Mostar, Bosnia-He...I thought of my day excursion to Mostar, Bosnia-Herzegovina as I read this. As we toured the ancient town, our tour guide who was a veteran of the 1990s Balkan Wars, asked a rhetorical question--we fought (other neighboring countries) for what? <br />The town still bears war damages but it's still worth visiting today for the history and culture. <br /><br />On a cultural note, one of the mosques in town has a beautiful rug that Emperor Franz Joseph gave as a gift during a visit there.Elisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-58364860081407777992010-11-11T17:47:23.119-06:002010-11-11T17:47:23.119-06:00To Christina; I would never "blame" Russ...To Christina; I would never "blame" Russia or any one country for the war certainly but none of the facts you mention counter the fact that it was the ultimate involvement of Russia that turned a possible Balkan war into a world war. Certainly Serbia would have taken a drubbing from the Austrians, most of the world saw them as being in the wrong anyway, but Russia staying out would have kept Germany out which would have kept France out etc. That is not to assign sole responsibility to Russia or any other country, that's just the way the cookie crumbled. Additionally, sympathies for Serbia aside, it should have been clear that Russia was in no shape to fight in 1914 and should not really have done so for any reason save their own national defense.<br /><br />To Zarove; you are as usual correct. Wars did not become "total" until they became "democratic", the "Nation in Arms" did not exist until the revolutionary era and no regimes have been so aggressive, cruel and militant than those with "people's" or "democratic" in their names.MadMonarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-51475365684085323132010-11-11T17:36:28.313-06:002010-11-11T17:36:28.313-06:00To build on what Aurelien Nicot said, its ronic th...To build on what Aurelien Nicot said, its ronic that most peopel I speak to today think Monarhcy lads to Briutal Excess, and is a recipee foer war and bloodshed, whilst Democracy breeds greater persnal Fredom as well as Internaitonal Peace, and yet the Major COnflicts of WW1 and WW2 as well as he Changed world tat resulted in is Aftermath saw the dwnfall of Monarchies and ise of Democracy, which seems ot have crresponded to far more Brutality.ZAROVEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-37162440113858422492010-11-11T17:32:42.413-06:002010-11-11T17:32:42.413-06:00Your post is so interesting, thank you! I think Ru...Your post is so interesting, thank you! I think Russia - personified in Tsar Nicholas - felt obliged to defend Serbia when the Tsar received a request for help from Prince Alexander. Nicholas (personifying Russia!) then did everything in his power to avoid war. He suggested the meeting between all Foreign Ministers, going to the international tribunal in The Hague, wrote personal appeals to the Kaiser...No, I don't think Russia was to blame. I think Conrad von Hotzendorf and the other members of the war party in Vienna were behind it. They refused all offers of negotiation.<br />Britain...I am a proud English person but my forebears killed in WW1, all of whom I honour and respect, died because they were roused by some jingoistic oratory, raised to the notion that they were defending their families and this would be a jolly jaunt from which they would come back as heroes...In fact they died to protect the interests of a few greedy people and lot of inept politicians. They actually died for nothing. And I do not doubt their courage in so doing.Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714569232976515363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-46743722276253183492010-11-11T15:13:41.704-06:002010-11-11T15:13:41.704-06:00Very true, and another important point is that at ...Very true, and another important point is that at Vienna the French were included in the talks and not shut out like the Central Powers were at Versailles. World War One was just a horror from start to finish and I cannot think of one totally good thing that came from it. It was unnecessary, it should not have happened and even on a national level, what was gained was certainly not worth the cost.MadMonarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-17545215036867597092010-11-11T12:18:27.008-06:002010-11-11T12:18:27.008-06:00We mourn the Old Europe every day...
I agree abou...We mourn the Old Europe every day...<br /><br />I agree about the comparison between the Congress of Vienna and the Treaty of Versailles. Vienna prevented major war between the Great Powers for one hundred years, while Versailles instigated it twenty years later on.<br /><br />As has often been said, there would have been no World War II without World War I, but there would have also been no Hitler with a Kaiser, no Balkans Conflicts with an Emperor, no Middle-Eastern conflict with a Sultan, and no U.S.S.R. with a Tsar.Aurelien Nicotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-80405467843296154182010-11-11T07:13:37.947-06:002010-11-11T07:13:37.947-06:00You can not imagine what I'm agree with his wo...You can not imagine what I'm agree with his words, from the relative objectivity that gives me to Be a student of history, rather than being a Spanish subject, which as you know was one of the few European countries neutral during the Great War, I think was a mistake led by hatred and irrationality rather than any national cause justifiable, any offense or casus belli ... the truth is that was a catastrophe that ended the civilized world as was known, infecting all of death, illness, relativism, socialism ...Marqués de Leguinechehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13499639444390779590noreply@blogger.com