tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post7594148719066564494..comments2024-03-16T01:00:19.876-05:00Comments on The Mad Monarchist: Why I Don't "Do" ThanksgivingMadMonarchisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-12835470080569027152011-11-24T14:13:19.127-06:002011-11-24T14:13:19.127-06:00I also want to point out that I do not doubt that ...I also want to point out that I do not doubt that the pilgrims who settled in Massachusetts were God-fearing men and women, and they wanted to settle someplace else to find the right place for them because they apparently thought they could run things better... though Metacom, Salem Witch Trials, Anne Hutchinson, etc says otherwise. I also have no doubt that they wanted to create a Christian settlement and British America did have a Christian founding. However, much of the story was blown out of proportion to make England look like a tyrannical force and that America truly is the land of the free. And as ZAROVE says above, the Spanish and the French are completely pushed out of the picture. Spain actually had a large empire at that time which no one seems to remember because everyone thinks about the British Empire nowadays and how the sun never sets there...<br /><br />But look at America now... so far removed from its so-called Christian heritage, huh?Le Petit Princehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396710488106186707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-76697746798378269272011-11-24T13:46:33.593-06:002011-11-24T13:46:33.593-06:00Off topic, but I bumped into this while on Youtube...Off topic, but I bumped into this while on Youtube...<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZCsfyaOGdw&feature=feedrec_grec_index<br /><br />I realised though that the host is pro-democracy and saw this as an insult. Oh when will they ever learn...Le Petit Princehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396710488106186707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-92005597885791505222011-11-24T13:17:14.981-06:002011-11-24T13:17:14.981-06:00I’ve explained before so hope I am not a bore, and...I’ve explained before so hope I am not a bore, and won’t be so long now, that this is simple and readily understood.<br /><br /><br />Combine a complete ignorance of History with a Patriotic Zeal and a need for a Coherent national identity and you have the creation of an American Mythology.<br /><br /><br />They fit all the large events into a singular narrative as if the events of the history of American Colonisation lead inexorably and inevitably toward the Creation of the United States of America and Independence from Great Britain.<br /><br />The Spaniards don’t factor into that, as they aren’t part of the inevitable flow of history and March of Culture. They simply don’t count. Neither do the French, who apparently only colonised Quebec and the lower portions of the modern State of Louisiana.<br /><br /><br />No, the Narrative behind America is how English ( Not British, English) Colonists left an oppressive Monarchy that was Religiously intolerant to found a land on Religious Freedom and Diversity. They thrived in America base don the principles of self government and Universal Brotherhood, but still chaffed under the oppressive control of the English (Not British) Kings, who finally exerted such oppressive and tyrannical control and taxed the poor colonists near to death that they were forced to fight a Revolution and win their Freedom.<br /><br />This Narrative is a Linear progression of events toward an American Ideology and an Independent American Nation. The Pilgrims are simply interpreted against Modern Ideals and Principle Values and placed in the Narrative. They get to serve as the Starting point forall fo this and thus must represent the seedbed of Liberty and Religious Pluralism.<br /><br /><br />They can’t use Jamestown for that, as it never had the Mystique of Religious Freedom as a Motive and thus can’t directly connect to the Narrative. Besides, they were all Anglicans in Jamestown, not Religious Refugees. How do you spin that into the Narrative? AND the Pilgrims were in Massachusetts. As you said, they were the forerunners of those Traitorous Rebels, er, Valiant Heroes who banded together to overthrow the Tyrant King, so they fit better, and the story is more inspiring to Modern Americans, irrespective of the actual facts involved.ZAROVEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17668854596329493360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-43639292923460734042011-11-24T10:43:49.655-06:002011-11-24T10:43:49.655-06:00Hello again. I think I have time today, so here go...Hello again. I think I have time today, so here goes.<br /><br />Even though I'm not opposed to the celebration of Thanksgiving altogether, what you write is true. The Puritans that fled England (or rather the Netherlands) were what we'd call the extremists. <br /><br />There was a meeting I believe sometime early in the 1600s where the dissatisfied Puritan members met up with King James to discuss about the many issues with the Anglican Church. I won't deny that there were some problems, and I think even King James realised that. He did give out some concessions to address some of these issues, and one of the concessions led to the formation of the King James Bible. Britain was the Protestant stronghold of Europe at that time and was ultimately the target of the Catholic nations such as Spain (Gunpowder Plot anyone?). <br /><br />Some of the Puritans were satisfied, but many others were quite extreme about it and thought "there is no hope here in England" and so moved out to the Netherlands... until even the Netherlands proved unsatisfactory for the reasons you've stated and had a charter issued by the king to start their own colony in Massachusetts. <br /><br />Of course, when King Charles took the throne, he did seem more "Catholic" than Protestant. In fact many things indicated he was more tolerable to Catholics, such as his French wife. Very suspect of a monarch for the English if you ask me. And it still bothers me to this day that it was these very same Protestants who were supportive of Cromwell and the Republican cause. Even though I myself am a Protestant, what these people did was regicide, and I have no sympathy for such traitors. <br /><br />And you do bring up a very interesting point; Massachusetts always seems to be the rebel hotbed and all sorts of crazy things start from there. But it also intrigues me that after the American Revolution it was the northern states that were Federalists, who were more supportive for the British than the southern states were, who were considered republicans. At that point, I'm sure Alexander Hamilton would have wanted to crush the south if he had the chance to. <br /><br />I don't know... the founding of two different colonies in two different areas for two different reasons (Virginia and Massachusetts) may be the very beginning of the bipartisan nature of America today. At least that's what I'm thinking. In any event, I see why you don't celebrate Thanksgiving but yes, some people do celebrate it to be thankful to God for everything. It's like Christmas; Jesus was not born on 25 December but it is still celebrated at that day. Eh, I'm not sure. I always thought God said always give thanks in every day. Much like modern day Christmas, it seems the whole turkey fest has become something like a commercial thing.Le Petit Princehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396710488106186707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-50006369686009203692011-11-24T10:37:49.111-06:002011-11-24T10:37:49.111-06:00I may join your ranks! (People will no doubt presu...I may join your ranks! (People will no doubt presume I've become a Jehova's Witness) I think from now on I'll do Thanksgiving on St Martin's Day.<br /> Actually, I'd like to start a movement that holds back on celebrating Christmas before December 24th - and then celebrates Winter thru February 02.tubbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272003035464034763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-14359128736200655182011-11-24T02:42:25.062-06:002011-11-24T02:42:25.062-06:00True, they also seem to have a rather selective de...True, they also seem to have a rather selective definition of "America", switching from the continent to the 13 colonies as it serves them. Many people, for some reason, still think these were the "first" when, as you say, there was already a colony in Virginia (which was royalist in the civil war I might add) and of course there were Spaniards marching all over La Florida, Texas and the southwest long before that.MadMonarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-65968819845354888462011-11-24T01:38:10.093-06:002011-11-24T01:38:10.093-06:00The whole "in search of freedom" story a...The whole "in search of freedom" story always made me chuckle. Yeah, the Pilgrims wanted freedom - the freedom to establish their own theocratic dictatorship. The Massachusetts Bay they founded bore so little resemblance to the eventual United States (as most modern Americans like to think of it) that it can hardly be considered the "real" birth of America. Certainly the fact that there was already a burgeoning colony in Virginia would mitigate that anyway.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08368547834849724343noreply@blogger.com