tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post527244969905049587..comments2024-03-16T01:00:19.876-05:00Comments on The Mad Monarchist: China and the Heavenly MandateMadMonarchisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-77668576100401959812016-10-07T19:45:14.852-05:002016-10-07T19:45:14.852-05:00The mandate evolves with the culture. Consumerism...The mandate evolves with the culture. Consumerism is legitimized by the material mandate$$$$. Remove the mandate and the peasants have no way to consume their identity and must revolt, even against the secular mythology of democracy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18157424692019163598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-13716314296924013442011-11-25T10:50:56.999-06:002011-11-25T10:50:56.999-06:00@ David: That's true. The Eastern culture are ...@ David: That's true. The Eastern culture are comparatively very conservative compared to the current neo-Western which is now pretty much far removed from its noble roots. However, I fear for my generation in Korea (I'm 22 to give you an idea) because we are all into the modern culture that pretty much defines America and the west, such as K-POP and other things mimicking the west. They spread like virus amongst young children (it even targets them)! The same trash that happened in America and Europe where the children are taught the new counterculture is superior and that adults need to be "re-educated" to fit into the times is happening here in Korea today! But yes, I've noticed many people would look into the east to find more conservative views... but I think the cultural and moral destruction is occurring as we speak. :(<br /><br />Taiping Rebellion... yikes. I wonder what would have happened if that heretic succeeded. Even the communists and nationalists to this day seem to admire Hong Xiuquan, which pretty much tells us a lot.Le Petit Princehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396710488106186707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-46203137453848638502011-11-24T19:35:44.348-06:002011-11-24T19:35:44.348-06:00To be fair, Asian societies like Singapore, Japan ...To be fair, Asian societies like Singapore, Japan and South Korea are preferable in many ways to modern Western societies. They still remain (even in Japanese and Korean democracies) hierarchical and even authoritarian in their social and cultural norms, and have evaded the cultural and moral destruction of the West since the 60s.David Votoupalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580606716887515975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-35144396682860207992011-11-24T19:30:08.999-06:002011-11-24T19:30:08.999-06:00The issue with Mandate of Heaven and the Qing appe...The issue with Mandate of Heaven and the Qing appears to be historical legacy. The "Dynasty" in China and Korea doesn't just refer to the royal house (the name of the royal family being different from the dynasty) but to the state and its formal name. Hence "Qing Empire", "Ming Empire", "Kingdom of Joseon", etc.<br /><br />The Taiping Rebellion was an attempt to replace one monarchy with another. Which was the case throughout Chinese history. The name "China" was first formally used by the Republic of China in 1911, hence "Emperor of China" (as opposed to "Qing Emperor", "Ming Emperor" et al) was used by Yuan Shikai in 1915-16 and certain leaders thought of making themselves emperor after then.<br /><br />Is it plausible there are direct descendants of the Ming, Song and Tang emperors today? And of other old royal houses?<br /><br />Different from Japan or Vietnam, where the name of the state ("Japan" and "Vietnam" or "Dai Viet") remained the same through the change of ruling house.David Votoupalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580606716887515975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-91648974539892839612011-11-24T13:44:46.271-06:002011-11-24T13:44:46.271-06:00Couldn't have said it any better mate.
If Nor...Couldn't have said it any better mate.<br /><br />If North was won over by the South, there'd be a lot of problems indeed, and only the internal system of monarchy can bring back a unified Korea. Difficult? Yes, but that's the only way Koreans can set aside their ideological differences and bring back what was.<br /><br />I just hope people would stop and realise the western democracy is simply not the way every nation should conform to. With democracy came this ugly form of standardisation and the discarding of unique traditions. I think I hate that aspect the most... look at China for crying out loud! Here in Korea we used to give to give them tributes (along with other nations who invariably visited the Forbidden City)! :/Le Petit Princehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396710488106186707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-47132529738769562142011-11-24T13:05:42.420-06:002011-11-24T13:05:42.420-06:00The reason the traditional system lasted so long w...The reason the traditional system lasted so long was that it was organic and it *worked*. Even the Manchus and the Mongols (for the most part) realized that when it came to governing China. As for Korea, the monarchy would be the only way the country could be reunited in a way that truly brings both sides together. The north would be a much bigger problem if it seemed to everyone that the south simply "won" over the north. The system may be mostly the same as in the south, but the forms and symbols of the monarchy would allow both sides to come together, putting the division behind them, to return to the natural state of Korea.MadMonarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-25602494051830339712011-11-24T10:55:02.276-06:002011-11-24T10:55:02.276-06:00I'm glad you covered this issue. The communist...I'm glad you covered this issue. The communist regime definitely is not legitimate, and the Qing dynasty is just waiting to be restored, or some other monarchical dynasty. Unfortunately, whenever someone talks about replacing communist regime, it always seems to be replaced with a Western republic style government (Russia for example). Even in Korea they talk about if the whole peninsula was ever united, it would take the form of the South Korean republic. Ugghh. The whole republican ideologies were the very reason why Korea was separated in the first place! I don't know if people will ever look back on monarchy and remember it as anything but an oppressive social pyramid that made slaves out of everybody while republics bring democracy and freedom to all people (as if democracy was a good thing) :/<br /><br />However, China is a bit different only because their whole entire nation depended on a leader, which is why the single-party state, however oppressive and destructive it is, is somehow acceptable to them. I don't think a republic fits China at all. Only the Middle Kingdom that existed in the past will do what is best for the Chinese, but people have to discard the idea that republicanism is the superior.Le Petit Princehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396710488106186707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-42051626019951190822011-11-23T21:07:52.047-06:002011-11-23T21:07:52.047-06:00I love your posts about Asian History. Far too few...I love your posts about Asian History. Far too few people know about this.<br /><br />Thanks again.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08562532996404114878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-75608470442106805562011-11-23T20:18:45.701-06:002011-11-23T20:18:45.701-06:00Servant, I'd agree but, we live in the Age of ...Servant, I'd agree but, we live in the Age of Democracy. Democracy is seen as a value in and of itself, and the going trend is, if a Government is one we don’t' like, then even if its freely elected like in Tunisia, its not a Democracy.<br /><br /><br />Even if the New Government uses the mandate of Heaven, it will still claim popular Sovereignty and at least try to pass itself off as a Democracy. Anyone mentioning restoration will be told that the Age of Monarchy has passed, and Mankind has matured past that need.<br /><br />Monarchic Restorations won't commence until the idea that Democracy is more advanced than Monarchy is itself overturned, along with the Universal praise for Democracy. If the Communist Regime falls in China, it'll be a new Republic of China that replaces it. <br /><br />I think Monarchy will eventually make a comeback. After all, things tend to be cyclical, and even the Roman Republic fell. However, if this were to happen within the next 50-100 years, the best bets right now for Monarchy are Russia, Portugal, Romania, Brazil, Egypt, and Nepal. Each has strong Monarchist movements and none seem to care about appearing Modern to a contemporary, Western dominated audience. China, as Eastern as it is and critical of Western ideals, still holds to the Imagine of “Progress” that leads them to think of the Superiority of Democracy over the Old Order. They haven’t had their fill yet like the Russians, and have a decidedly different history. Heck, the Communists didn’t even overthrow their Emperor like the Tzar’s in Russia were; they overtook the Republic of China instead.<br /><br />However, if Russia ever Restored the Tzars, it may begin debate in the East about such things, and thus lend credibility to the idea of a new Chinese Emperor.<br /><br /><br />Other than this, I think your analysis is spot on. And I know you didn’t say an Imperial Restoration would happen, I’m just adding to it.ZAROVEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17668854596329493360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-37476984295891564492011-11-23T04:59:32.526-06:002011-11-23T04:59:32.526-06:00I do not predict that any popular uprisings in Chi...I do not predict that any popular uprisings in China will occur spontaneously in the near future.<br /><br />Or thats what I did say before China bought out both America's and Europe's debts. China as it stands as far as I am concerned is a time bomb, and the worst kind of one at that. It is horrendously over populated, treats its peasentry (and it most certainly does have peasentry) as commodities for the state to use, has poor legal and judicial practices (it has been widely speculated that the little girl being ignored as she lay dieing was the result of Legal conventions where 'Rescuers', ordinary citizens aiding their fellow citizens when they are injured, where considered liable for the injury to begin with in some backwards logic my common law mind cannot fathom), and now Bond holder for the world.<br /><br />Only a fool would not believe it highly likely that Chinese Bankers, in their astonishing economic success in the 21st century, had been just as reckless as us westerners have proven to be, and it is likely that China may indeed hit economic difficulties in the near future, although I couldnt begin to predict when, and we will see a recalling of debts. And then shit will hit the proverbial fan. If China goes, so goes the Western Econemies and God only knows how the fall of the biggest power in the Asian markets will affect countries there.<br /><br />When that occurs I really do not expect the communist regime to last anything close to five years after initial riots, if even that. I would not hold out for a Qing restoration, at all. But it is likely that however comes next may not be as stringently anti-confucion as the current regime is and likely use the Mandate of Heaven as their base. However, again, I could not begin to predict who that could possibly be.<br /><br />My concern in China has always been for the Christian Minority, a stubborn thing that the Current regime has tried desperately to suppress and control like it has done to Buddhist temples. Can't say much for the Protestants there but the Catholic Minority has shown heroic yet peaceful resistance to the current illegitimite regime. My hope is that should any counter-revolution come to fruition there that the Catholics would support the restoration of an Emperor, and in turn the Emperor would grant them leniency. Probably even more of a Pipe dream then the actual restoration of the Empire but one can hope.Servant of the Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018786429076784275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-40194869841080598872011-11-23T04:11:22.576-06:002011-11-23T04:11:22.576-06:00It is really sad to think of traditional China and...It is really sad to think of traditional China and then remember that it is not like that anymore because of the Commies. <br /><br />How do you pronounce 'Qing'?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-84800884710733540732011-11-23T03:28:49.940-06:002011-11-23T03:28:49.940-06:00If you'd asked me that before the "Arab S...If you'd asked me that before the "Arab Spring" I would have said no, and I still think it unlikely, but their reaction to it has made me think they are at least somewhat concerned about the possibility as they have consistently been the last to drop their support for the regimes in power and seek to 'make nice' with the rebels. Still though, I think it unlikely, especially in light of how the western world continues to bow and scrape to China in return for loans and trade agreements. They see themselves as the rising new world power more than anyone else does.<br /><br />Vietnam is a unique case (always). Centuries of history have left in them a deep-seated distrust of China, however, since their Soviet sugar-daddy collapsed they have been forced to more or less fall into the Chinese camp. They don't like it, but as the only other officially communist major power in the region, they go along to get along.MadMonarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083008336883267870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8783969302315257415.post-37443081406768818022011-11-23T03:08:55.587-06:002011-11-23T03:08:55.587-06:00China isn't even socialist anymore economicall...China isn't even socialist anymore economically, in a sense it resembles more like a fascist or Nazi state. But Communism isn't simply an economic philosophy or a system of government- it's also a social and cultural ideal. While they abandoned socialist economics starting in 1979 (and introduced the worst kind of capitalism imaginable, where money is more important than human life), they didn't undo the barbaric vandalism of the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution which, remember, likely killed more people than almost all wars did.<br /><br />Recent incidents- food safety, the appalling handling of a high-speed rail crash, the case of the little girl being run over and nobody noticed- and the fact that the Chinese internet community is becoming more sophisticated, could contribute to the corrosion of the acceptance or tolerance of the regime by the majority of people.<br /><br />Can China and Vietnam have their own version of the "Arab Spring" soon?David Votoupalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580606716887515975noreply@blogger.com